Modifications => Nod SDK Mods => AoR Mod => Topic started by: Question on 2018-02-06, 03:13:10

Title: AoR bugs
Post by: Question on 2018-02-06, 03:13:10
For 2017 1.1 build 8

-The wraith script is extremely buggy and causes them to constantly teleport all over the place which breaks AI. Party members stop attacking and just stand/walk around in confusion every time they teleport. I was able to fix this by removing the script from the creature itself so the problem is definately in the script.

-Gun damage calculation is broken. This is very obvious if you type "combatmessages 1" in the console to see combat messages. A shotgun with slugs should do 120 bashing damage...but even when firing on humans with 0 soak, it doesnt do anywhere near that amount. It averages 60-70 damage instead. Pistols with 70 bashing damage average 35 on monks with 0 soak. For some reason, all guns seem to do half their stated damage.

Guns also do basically no damage to vampires, even if the vampire has 0 soak. I changed shotguns to do 300 bashing damage (same change for slug ammo). Look at the first screenshot...the 300 damage shotgun does only 154 damage and somehow the cappadocian with 0 soak can soak 101 damage. How is he soaking that much damage? He doesn't even have fortitude on, he has 0 soak, and he has a low stamina value.

Gun damage vs humans also appears to be bugged. Even though they do bashing damage, humans dont use their stamina to soak it and any bashing soak values that they have are completely ignored. Look at the second screenshot...a pistol with 70 bashing damage vs a Soldier with 50 bashing soak...yet the Soldier soaks no damage whatsoever.

All of the above was with the AoR damage calculation rules. I switched back to the vanilla damage calculation rules and most of the problems were resolved. Humans can now soak bashing damage from guns and vampires with 0 soak no longer soak 100+ bashing damage from guns.

However, all guns still do roughly half their stated damage even on the monks in the monastery which have 0 soak.
I suspect this problem is in the ammo overhaul script, not the damage calculation script.

-Buckshot, as designed, cannot hurt anything with a mild soak value. Each pellet does 10 damage, but soak is calculated vs each pellet. 10 soak is sufficient to render a target immune to buckshot. The only reason you can hurt the Leopold soldiers is because for some reason, their soak values are completely ignored. On the flip side, soldiers with buckshot cannot hurt you because your soak is calculated vs each pellet.

Your incendiary arrows/bolts have a similar problem. The damage is split into 3 different projectiles, so soak is applied 3 times to it.

-Otto's shop is missing a TON of items. He doesnt sell any headgear/gloves anymore and he only has a few chest armors.

-Modern day enemies dont appear to drop armor/head/gloves either (armor wise, not talking about sap gloves).

-For some reason, most modern ammo are set to not stackable in the config files by default. Is this intended or an oversight?

-AI controlled characters (whether enemies or coterie) do not appear to know how to use shotguns/rifles properly. With the burst fire option on, they can burst fire SMGs/Assault rifles, but with shotguns/rifles they only fire one shot with a very long wait time between each shot. I don't know what the problem is, they aren't reloading, they just fire one shot then look around for like 3 seconds before firing a second shot. The weapon itself is fine and player controlled characters can fire them much faster, but the AI does not appear to know how to do it.

-Teutonic knights with invisibility appears to be bugged, you can see them with auspex 5 but cannot click on them to target them. This seems to happen specifically for the trap rooms where the doors close after you enter.

-Tremere neonates NEVER use lure of the flames. They only use beckoning/aura perception then try to punch you to death (which obviously does not work). I was not able to get a single tremere to throw a fireball at me during my dark ages playthrough, although some did use flame ring or firestorm.

-Hoppers/Spiders have a 100% hit chance blood drain attack. The problem is that its a 100% hit chance, you cannot kill them before they use it because the moment you get into melee range, they use it.

-Frenzy keeps getting stuck. I have seen the frenzy bar get stuck at very high values even though I had been sitting in the haven for 5 minutes or longer, with a full blood pool and no threats present. This is most obvious with frenzy rating set to 1 instead of the default 0.4 (so that you can build frenzy easier). In order to reduce frenzy, I had to enter combat again, and after the combat ends, the frenzy bar will start decreasing like normal. The script is probably not checking for the end of combat correctly.

-Anezka's prayer regeneration buffat the start of the game triggers too fast, it literally makes you unkillable to anything in the mines.

Vanilla bug :

-The script to move items over to modern day appears to be bugged. The first time round, I had vitae/scrolls/etc in Christof's inventory...and the ainkurn sword that he was using never got transferred to modern day at all. Many other items in christof's inventory were also missing, but everything in his vault was accounted for. And yes, I searched all 3 locations in the society of leopold carefully.

I reloaded to a previous save, removed all the vitae/scrolls/etc from Christof's inventory, and all the magical stuff in his inventory transferred to modern day properly. Im guessing that the script gets confused if you have too much stuff in Christof's inventory.
Title: Re: AoR bugs
Post by: Question on 2018-02-06, 03:49:19
Just tried testing compound bows with titanium arrows (300 lethal damage) using vanilla damage calculations. On monks with 0 soak, they average 160 damage. Something is definately wrong here...
Title: Re: AoR bugs
Post by: Question on 2018-02-06, 05:27:40
So I was testing the AI burst fire function and I found that it is very buggy.

In most cases, it doesnt work. Running through the society of leopold shows that most of the enemies will not burst fire pistols. They just fire once, instead of automatically.

It seems that enemies MUST have spare ammo in their inventory to fire automatically. The reason for this seems to be because the game looks at the weapon, sees that it only has one ammo (because of the overhaul script) and then it bugs out. Im looking at a society of leopold lab worker, i gave him a pistol, and he only fires it in single shot mode. I gave him pistol clips, and he fires the pistol like a machine gun. Infact, he fires it much faster than it is possible for the player to fire it...

Title: Re: AoR bugs
Post by: Javokis on 2018-02-07, 13:42:55
One thing I forgot to put in the readme is the new console command

stcmd toglog

toglog is off by default. Simply type the command in once to enable. Type it in again to disable.

This will give you an extensive look at how ai works, how damage is calculated, and how config file settings are applied. This will separate each of these aspects out into 3 files located in the vtmr>aor directory. These files will log only the past 200 events before you close the game. These are tied more closely to the mod's script and much more reliable than using the ingame combatmessages command. Note to double check the config app's damage resistance settings as those can influence the calculations. Usually damage is halved against npcs when using the Hard preset mode, but it's also possible that combatmessages command is confused because of how the aor mod overrides damage.

Another way to thoroughly understand aor's damage calculation rules is to check the NodSDKProjects\AoR_Normal\src\aor_system\AoRSystemMethods.java source file located in the NOD SDK Projects download available on the right panel here:


About the society inventory script; there are actually 15 points where your items are placed around the [society of leopold level 3] when items are displaced from your inventory. Only items with the carrytomodernday flag will be spawned at any of these 15 points. When one artifact is found, it increments +1 to the next point in the array. The script is actually very thorough and if you have more than 15 artifacts then it will reset the count, placing items over each other at 15 points on the map. The script is also designed to go through not just your inventory but every player on that locations inventory. So it effects multiplayer and will effect Serena's inventory if she is with you.

The AI might not always sustain autofire because it is constantly checking line-of-sight. This has nothing to do with in-game ammo as that is completely ignored by aor's ammo overhaul which basically puts ai instructions into the weapon script itself. Which also can interpret a miss as a potential lost target - which sends instructions through the weapon to the npc's ai. This will cause other packages to run calculations and force the npc to commit other behavior [like reposition or move to flank]. Autofire is also interrupted by the npcs consideration to use disciplines.

Also note that shotguns and rifles are not automatic or even semi-automatic weapons and the AI will never auto fire them. Magazines will never stack. Only loose ammo like the revolver rounds, shotgun shells, 50 cal cartridges, batteries, bolts, and arrows. Magazines are individual objects that consist of a set of ammo designed to quickly load into a gun.
Title: Re: AoR bugs
Post by: Question on 2018-02-09, 05:13:36
Its not a case of combatmessages being confused...if you compare the cappadocian's HP with the combatmessages in the screenshot, you will see that it matches. I strongly suggest you do a quick test run through the society of leopold in MP mode (so you can use the ST tools) as well and see for yourself...soldiers with 50 bashing soak cannot soak ANY bashing damage from guns. This applies to all humans, guns ignore all soak values for humans with the AOR damage calculation mod. Using the pistol allows you to kill all human enemies in the society of leopold in 2-3 hits max because they cannot soak any of your damage.

I am not using any preset in your config utility. The preset part is blank.

All ranged weapons consistently do half damage for some reason. Infact, i see the same thing with very low str values and melee weapons. A character with 0 str (requires using a custom character in MP mode) will average 20 damage with the 40 damage broadsword, on monks. My guess is that while melee weapons have damage bonuses from str, ranged weapons get none and therefore will always do roughly half their listed damage.

Can you please explain the other things I mentioned in the OP as well? What happened to all the modern day armor? Otto's van is missing a TON of items in his inventory. The modern day component of AoR is badly broken. Frenzy keeps getting stuck and will not decrease till the next combat. There are a TON of issues with the mod.

There is also one huge bug with Pink. Your tatics script makes characters with the Diablerist aura try to diablerize vampires. The problem is, this cannot be disabled. Turning off "AI hunts for blood" has no effect. Pink constantly spams "Awe" on Setites (which gets resisted almost all the time) to try and diablerize them, meaning he achieves nothing in combat. He will do this even if he is surrounded by 6+ Setites and attempting dlaberie is sucidal. I have tried to change his aura using the console command "Aura" but it doesn't seem to work...while aura perception confirms that he no longer has a diablerist aura, this is completely ignored by your script and he continues to spam awe and attempt sucidal dlaberie.

I have discovered a quick and simple fix for pistol auto firing. Your script causes pistols to fire like a machine gun, and at other times it causes enemies to fire them in single shot mode. This is very easy to test : start a MP game, jump to societyofleopold3, run outside. There are 3 workers with pistols right outside. Let them shoot you for a bit (easiest with a modded character with tons of health).

As it is, when an enemy with a pistol fires, one of two things happen :

-The enemy goes into the pistol stance, fires once, then empties the magazine nearly instantly like a machine gun (13 shots in 0.5s or less). Players cannot fire as fast as this. If you try, Christof will fire them semi-automatically.

-The enemy fires once, then lowers his arm just iike Vanilla mode.

The fix that I found :

-Disable "AI auto fire"

-Change Pistols to have a reload time of 0

-The AI will now fire pistols semi-automatically without lowering his arm in between shots. It looks a bit weird though. I didn't do complete testing on this, but the fire rate is still much faster than what the player can achieve in AOR/Vanilla.

I dont now what the deal is with the AI and repeat firing. If the player just holds down the mouse, he fires a pistol with no problem at a proper speed. But the AI simply cannot replicate this. Its very obvious with shotguns and rifles. A player with a shotgun can simply hold down the mouse and fire roughly 2x faster than an AI can, because the AI will fire one shot then stand there like a moron for an extra 1-2 seconds. I am not talking about making shotguns fire like a machine gun.

Even bows have this problem. A player who holds down the mouse can fire much faster with a bow than the AI can. Maybe it's the AI logic? While a human can hold down the mouse, the AI attacks once then has to decide what to do next so attacks slower (which is also why they cant fire full auto weapons properly i guess).
Title: Re: AoR bugs
Post by: Javokis on 2018-02-09, 11:01:58
I don't answer all of your questions because much of that is already addressed in my readme, changelog, and let's play. I don't like having to answer the same question over and over when I've already showcased massive amounts of the mod publicly.

You're just going to have to take the time to research. You're assuming the mod is supposed to have one type of behavior when it's already documented through several mediums that it does something else.
Title: Re: AoR bugs
Post by: Question on 2018-02-12, 03:45:00
Did you even look at the screenshots...nothing in your readme or changelog mentions anything about ranged weapons doing half damage, etc and its a bit much to expect everyone to view all your videos from start to finish just to know what changes you have made.

You really should consider the possibility that some of these are bugs...and not features. Wraiths teleporting into walls every few seconds and breaking party AI is a feature? I highly doubt that.

Ranged weapons doing dramatically lower damage than intended is a vanilla issue, which I just confirmed. It's why throwing knives/shurikens have the weapon listed as 20 damage and the projectile itself does 50 damage.

Also figured out why NPCs take so long to fire shotguns...they use weap_shotgun which has a reload time of 4.5 seconds, whereas the player version has a reload time of 1.33 seconds.

That's two issues which are not features of your mod already.
Title: Re: AoR bugs
Post by: Question on 2018-02-12, 04:30:25
OK im trying out the toglog command now. I went into the setite temple and shot some setites with a rifle which (supposedly) does 110 damage.

41: Christof does 80 normal damage to Setite

This is nowhere close to 110...

42: Setite's armor cannot soak firearms.

So im guessing you made guns ignore all bashing soak values or something?

43: Setite soaks 42 normal damage from Christof

Where is this soak value coming from then? The Setite' sstamina? And you made Humans unable to soak damage from guns with their stamina right?

The toglog command doesnt appear to work in MP so i cant use the ST tools to check the enemy HP unfortunately.

The inconsistency with combat messages is probably because you are calculating damage from scripts or something. Which would explain why changing shotgun slugs to do 300 damage causes the messages to flip out...the game isnt using the projectile damage values to calculate damage anymore, but combat messages is, so its creating massive soak values out of nowhere so that the final damage is correct.

Still doesnt address the problem where buckshot is incapable of hurting non-humans though. Or even slugs being unable to hurt Setites.

It would have been a LOT easier if this info was in the readme...i checked the readme and changelog and i cant find any mention of this. People should not need to do this kind of testing to make guesses at how your mod works.
Title: Re: AoR bugs
Post by: Javokis on 2018-02-12, 09:01:39
This was actually explained in the front page about damage being calculated for pnp - I guess not everyone knows what that means so I'll explain here. The let's play [during modern day chapters] covered the new bullet-proofing mechanic [which I did forget to put in the readme, but it was still showcased on the let's play]. Bullet-proofing is not really part of the pnp rule set and is unique to this addition of aor as a form of realism.

Armor now needs bullet-proofing to actually start soaking bullet damage - bullet-proofing is actually shown on the relevant armor. Otherwise, vampires will soak normal bullets with their stamina + soak enhancing disciplines [Like Fortitude]. Conventional rounds are also halved in damage against vampires, hence why fire type rounds are essential against vampires. Humans cannot soak bullet damage with stamina because they are human. Humans are weak compared to vampires and this is noted in the wod pnp rules. Humans [and all non-vampires] take bullet damage as lethal [like in pnp] and cannot soak with stamina [except for certain monsters like werewolves]. Some npcs have bullet-proofing, but those that don't cannot soak firearms with their armor as was noted in the log you posted above.

Bullet proofing is shown as a %. So that is the efficiency of the soak against bullets. If it says 50% then only 50% of the soak will absorb bullet damage. Tailored Armor has efficiency of 120% which makes it still the best armor in the game. This armor is expensive and is only available in New York chapter.

Oh and to get the toglog command to work in MP, you have to spawn the ST head. You go into ST mode then right-click at the ground. That will spawn the ST Head. Then you can type in stcmd commands from aor.