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Author Topic: Still worth it?  (Read 8107 times)

Azraelthe7th

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Still worth it?
« on: 2009-05-30, 18:14:15 »

I'm pretty much wondering if this project is still worth working on.

So far, the only active members have been Javokis and myself, and even then, Javo had to deal with a number of life issues, as well as struggling to find whether he'll work as level artist or programmer.

So I ask:  is VtMR:Source something people want to see, or is it best to leave the stake in this Cainite's heart?
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ORI

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Re: Still worth it?
« Reply #1 on: 2009-05-30, 22:31:54 »

Multiplayer MD Redemption in Source yes

Anything else is just unrealistic at this point IMO
Since most of us can only work on this in our free time I think others will only join if it seems like something interesting that wont take till the next millenium to finish.
« Last Edit: 2009-05-30, 22:39:43 by ORI »
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Azraelthe7th

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Re: Still worth it?
« Reply #2 on: 2009-05-31, 08:00:39 »

Like I said in the Redemption forum: any assets made for multi-player can and will be used for single player.

If we shift our focus to work on getting a fully functional multi-player game, with enough tools to help us build the single player game, would you help?
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ORI

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Re: Still worth it?
« Reply #3 on: 2009-05-31, 08:48:10 »

Yes, (im the same person as Radical on PV btw)
If we release a MP mod first and then further develope it to SP it would be easier to get people motivated to help to in my eyes because the project's scale is more realistic + The Storyteller Mod is a great tool to build a SP campign later on.
Also If we are using HL2 I suggest going MD first  since the MD WoD game is more popular than the DA version AFAIK and can save on making some of the art here and there(Since HL2 is MD).

« Last Edit: 2009-05-31, 09:15:31 by ORI »
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Azraelthe7th

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Re: Still worth it?
« Reply #4 on: 2009-05-31, 20:42:48 »

You bring some good points, but I thought the more popular aspect of Redemption was the Medieval setting, which does seem to go opposite of the table top games.

Also, yeah, the weapons from HL2 can easily fit into the WoD since most of them aren't really excessively futuristic.
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Javokis

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Re: Still worth it?
« Reply #5 on: 2009-06-01, 02:30:35 »

I still hold on to the possibility of eventually working on this bad boy.

Granted, we have ran out of the time frame that was expected of this project to kick up. On the other hand, why the rush? It's not like we're running out of funds. What now? Do we file bankruptcy? Don't worry about it guys, this project will be equally difficult no matter what we do. At least for me since I don't mess around with Source all that often. Everything about it is outside of my comfort zone. Actually everything outside of Redemption is outside of my comfort zone. So don't go blaming the Source engine. I'm sure any alternative will be as equally uncomfortable for me.

I don't see single player as unrealistic. Just non-achievable at this time, but I would say the same thing about multiplayer. I don't see how a multiplayer storyteller mode in HL2 would be easier to do than making a scripted single player mod. Prove to me that the single player game is less realistic to develop than multiplayer. Unless one of you has done something with HL2 that hasn't been posted about yet, I have doubts that you know what you're saying.

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ORI

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Re: Still worth it?
« Reply #6 on: 2009-06-01, 09:37:17 »

I still hold on to the possibility of eventually working on this bad boy.

Granted, we have ran out of the time frame that was expected of this project to kick up. On the other hand, why the rush? It's not like we're running out of funds. What now? Do we file bankruptcy? Don't worry about it guys, this project will be equally difficult no matter what we do. At least for me since I don't mess around with Source all that often. Everything about it is outside of my comfort zone. Actually everything outside of Redemption is outside of my comfort zone. So don't go blaming the Source engine. I'm sure any alternative will be as equally uncomfortable for me.

I don't see single player as unrealistic. Just non-achievable at this time, but I would say the same thing about multiplayer. I don't see how a multiplayer storyteller mode in HL2 would be easier to do than making a scripted single player mod. Prove to me that the single player game is less realistic to develop than multiplayer. Unless one of you has done something with HL2 that hasn't been posted about yet, I have doubts that you know what you're saying.



From Scripting prespective, yeah it can be the same amount of work, Artwise you can release a MP mod that will have much less Art and will still be fun to play.
SP mod that is too short or lacking is usually not so fun..
So from the prespective of Producing Artwork(3d models,eveniroment etc) and Animation , a MP mod is easier to make than SP because the amount of actual content doesnt have to be as big and can be updated gradually, and I worked on enough 3d Animation projects to know what im talking about and unlike this project they dont require the coding aspect at all

Also Time is still an essential factor considering that :
A) The more it is in production the more people lose interest and get frustrated from not seeing payoff for their effort or move to do other projects.
B)  The more we wait with some kind of release the less chances that anyone will care by the time its done.
C)  Will be harder to convince anyone that the project will someday actually become a playable game.(thus harder to recruit anyone)
D) If I wanted to create 3d models solely to see them as 3d models ill probably make a VTM 3d feature instead of a singleplayer game that is unlikely to become playable in the near future.

Im not saying we are on a budget or a deadline but if you are serious about this project some timefirame need to be taken in mind, especially if you want to recruit other people to help you on this project.
Consider how many people in the HL2 mod community have heard the words : I want to make a TC mod, and consider how many times they got disappointed how many of became where a TC project didnt make it. No one will put his stock(time and effort) with a mod that does little to prove itself or has a plan to get completed in  a reasonable timeframe because the more a project is in production the greater the chances that something will go wrong.

Like you say Javo, Source Engine is uncharted waters for all of us so just waiting ages until we release something is not going to make our good reputation grow with that community


A MP Demo can be something as Simple as :
7+ Basic playable models
City Enviroment
Weapons
Basic fun Disciplines for start
Storyteller that can create and possess NPC characters.

And you have a fun playable multiplayer mod others will be excited about developing further
So Technicly the greatst challange then is scripting the relatively innovative Storyteller aspect. succeed and in making that in high quality fashion and you potentially garner a reputation in the community and more people feel like helping develope this project further.
« Last Edit: 2009-06-01, 10:07:02 by ORI »
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ORI

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Re: Still worth it?
« Reply #7 on: 2009-06-01, 11:13:40 »

Also  I think this is relevant here:
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Making_a_MOD

Some of it disproves or validates some of what I said, worth reading IMO
« Last Edit: 2009-06-01, 11:16:20 by ORI »
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Javokis

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Re: Still worth it?
« Reply #8 on: 2009-06-01, 16:55:38 »

My reputation is already about making mods for outdated games. What's new?

I'm not all that conserned with reputation. Wodal was on the back burner for 3 years (idea dates back to 2004 - that's 4 years after Redemption's launch) before it was finally developed and it still isn't finished. Now, 9 years into the game, I'm still making mods and I don't recall the community feeling so let down because my projects took so long.

I'm sure my download quota would be much higher if all of this happened within the first 2-3 years of the game, but I'm always a late bloomer. I care little about popularity or 10k+ download quotas. Source is very popular engine unlike Redemption. Once the project begins to show real results it matters little of how many of them lost patience from tracking the project early on. I would be surprised if this project was being looked upon by thousands of hopefuls who are ready to shun our late development.

As for artists wanting to see their assets in the mod... I see very little developed at this moment. We're pretty much going at the speed if little significance.  With a 'team' of little significance. And I'll throw in our insignificant audience too because I've seen little of them. I highly doubt anyone from the mainstream HL2 community even knows who we are at this moment. We have no reputation with the HL2 community.
« Last Edit: 2009-06-01, 16:58:19 by Javokis »
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ORI

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Re: Still worth it?
« Reply #9 on: 2009-06-02, 00:56:20 »

I was talking about people to help with the mod losing interest rather than ones simply looking forward for the outcome

And because no one knows who we are they wont haste to help our cause... hence not releasing anything will not improve upon that situation.
« Last Edit: 2009-06-02, 00:58:18 by ORI »
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Javokis

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Re: Still worth it?
« Reply #10 on: 2009-06-02, 01:43:03 »

Interest can be lost regardless, but most projects come with calculated assessments. Did we really believe that this project would kick up within a certain time frame? Given that this project started out as a mere idea with only one early stage model that wasn't even Source engine ready; I'm rather surprised at the expectations.

I'm not expecting the project to suddenly receive a surge of assistance while in a dormant state. I don't recall leading on to that. Quite the opposite. I'm merely saying that at the current state of development there would appear to be no difference on whether everyone wanted to suddenly leave the project. The project has no functioning Source engine assets as it was when it was first announced.

We all have a lot on our plates. That's okay. I highly doubt that tending to your various priorities before tending to a  hobby will cause any real repercussions to a project that really only exists in our heads. I don't believe that tending to our lives for a few years then suddenly feeling the urge to make an idea come to life is going to somehow negatively effect how a community views us. When we're ready to work on this project in full force then we will do so. Till then, it's going to have to stay on the back burner.
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ORI

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Re: Still worth it?
« Reply #11 on: 2009-06-02, 02:05:57 »

I guess I was confused and under a different impression about where you guys talked about recruiting more people to help on this.

How the community views you matters only in regards to finding people who are willing to work with you on this, but if you dont care and dont really need anyone else that is indeed insiginficant.
« Last Edit: 2009-06-02, 02:10:34 by ORI »
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Javokis

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Re: Still worth it?
« Reply #12 on: 2009-06-02, 18:03:40 »

I think you're rather mincing words here. Of course we care, but in the aspect of our personal lives, it's neither high priority or of great concern. Try to have a little context in your replies.
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Azraelthe7th

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Re: Still worth it?
« Reply #13 on: 2009-06-05, 04:22:47 »

ORI:  If I didn't care, I wouldn't have started to question if the project was even worth it.

I see people claiming interest and then just disappearing, or coming around with little to no offer of help.  I want to be able to see Redemption take on a new life, meant as a celebration of the original game with more modern tech.  Unfortunately, I still feel like we're running around like headless chickens because after all this time we have two not-yet-imported-into-source models and nothing else to show.

A large part of this is my fault (I made the models, but I haven't even taken the time to get them in the game), and that I can take the blame for, but had we gotten someone to work on some additional material for the project, maybe it would have given me the necessary boot in the ass to actually do what I want to do.
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ORI

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Re: Still worth it?
« Reply #14 on: 2009-06-05, 04:48:28 »

ORI:  If I didn't care, I wouldn't have started to question if the project was even worth it.

I see people claiming interest and then just disappearing, or coming around with little to no offer of help.  I want to be able to see Redemption take on a new life, meant as a celebration of the original game with more modern tech.  Unfortunately, I still feel like we're running around like headless chickens because after all this time we have two not-yet-imported-into-source models and nothing else to show.

A large part of this is my fault (I made the models, but I haven't even taken the time to get them in the game), and that I can take the blame for, but had we gotten someone to work on some additional material for the project, maybe it would have given me the necessary boot in the ass to actually do what I want to do.

I acutally wrote what I did more to that effect , because things seem very stagnant and I wanted to know how you and Javokis view the project and your approach towards it(which is also why I didnt write any of this on a public forum), and with all due respect(and there is much respect) at the moment the project doesnt seem like something others can take seriously, and if I make stuff for source they probably wouldnt be for this project exclusivly since it doesnt look like its going to happen.

Not anyone's fault by the way, people are busy with other stuff, but this and the Bloodlines Revival project inspire me to try and make something for the Source Engine which I will do once I have my Comp brought back here again.
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