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Author Topic: Redemption Source Planning  (Read 10892 times)

Javokis

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Redemption Source Planning
« on: 2007-11-04, 10:36:52 »

Attached below is the document containing concepts and planning. View and comment at your leisure.
« Last Edit: 2009-01-03, 14:16:44 by Javokis »
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Javokis

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Re: Redemption Source Planning
« Reply #1 on: 2007-11-05, 15:08:03 »

Redemption: Source should be a shortened completely redone version of the original game. I doudt we'll be able to make Redemption in its entirety without eventually loosing interest. With that said, I think we should concentrate on Prague ONLY then see how far our story can go by limiting its start and finish to that town. That way we wont have to worry about making several cities that we don't have the manpower to make at this time. We can just concentrate on making what few quests that are written as fullfilling as possible, removing many of the quests that were in Redemption. There were quite a few that could be done without like the attack on the Cappadocian's haven, which many people thought made no sense. That's one less mission to build a map for and more should be removed as well. I think Redemption: Source should concentrate mostly on the Tzimisce threat in Prague.

I think the night of the battle upon Prague is where Christof is embraced. I'm thinking that during Anezka and Christof's romantic moment of sorrow together, Azhra swoops down, attacks Christof, leaving him fataly wounded, and kidnaps Anezka to send to Viscerad castle. This is where Ecaterina finds him near death and decides to save him. That way the player has no options, but to accept the Embrace. Besides, Ecaterina wanted him as a foot soldier to battle against the Tzimisce anyway. I think she was thoroughly convinced of his strength on the battlefield that night. It would also add ironi to his Embrace sense Ecat was also near death when SHE was embraced.
« Last Edit: 2007-11-05, 15:09:48 by Javokis »
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Azraelthe7th

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Re: Redemption Source Planning
« Reply #2 on: 2007-11-30, 11:30:36 »

But what of the time after the embrace?  While I mostly like the new direction, there's that nagging feeling that we may be cutting a bit too much of the adventure.  There are characters to see (and kill) and environments to explore.  I'd love to see Vienna come to light as well.  But I agree on the notion that we shouldn't make it too long for fear of losing interest.

I suggest that before we write the rest of the story, we should agree on which characters and locations should make a return.  I'd very much like to see Vienna integrated for the Luthor Black mission only (again) different from the one found in Redemption except maybe for the ending.  I didn't much care about the Tremere missions, so we can always skip them for the meantime, plus they were a bit too fantastic to be WoD-like.  However, I admit that the Dark Ages missions were the more entertaining overall, so there's a good number of characters I'd love to see re-made for them.
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ORI

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Re: Redemption Source Planning
« Reply #3 on: 2007-12-05, 09:44:02 »

  I didn't much care about the Tremere missions, so we can always skip them for the meantime, plus they were a bit too fantastic to be WoD-like. 

IMO WoD is not WoD without all that dark occult stuff.
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Azraelthe7th

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Re: Redemption Source Planning
« Reply #4 on: 2007-12-05, 14:19:14 »

It's not the dark occult stuff I had a problem with, it's the way they were shown in the game.
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Azraelthe7th

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Re: Redemption Source Planning
« Reply #5 on: 2007-12-05, 17:42:53 »

Ok, back to the planning:

Controls:  I think some tweaking can be made on this aspect what I propose is this:
  • Q should be used for the quick switching of weapons.  Also, seeing as there aren't any extra weapons, the scroll buttons could be used to scroll through Disciplines instead.
  • To activate disciplines, I propose the R key, with the T key to deactivate them.  They're easy to access and allow for quick uses in the middle of battle.
  • Feeding, we can all agree, should be mapped to the F key.
  • Melee and brawl attacks should (or could) be chargeable, allowing for extra damage at the expense of keeping your defence open for a few seconds.
  • The right mouse button would serve as a block button if carrying a sheild or would allow for a secondary attack (hold down to sheild, quick click to attack).  Alternatively, the middle mouse button could be the guard button, while the right button controls secondary attacks (or, going the way of Assassin's Creed, the right button is the right hand and the left button is the left hand).

Some gameplay ideas can be borrowed from Pirates, Vikings & Knights II mod, seeing as the overall setting and ideas work within the medieval-themed tapestry of Redemption (and the first phase of the mod).

Quick change to the proposed story: when Christof awakens, he should speak the first words.  Them being: "Mother Mary?"  It sets up the romance between Anezka and Christof from that moment.  In fact, I actually liked most of their interactions in the game, and would like them to remain as faithful to the original as possible.

For the wounded bretheren, I propose only three or four other members of the Order to be considered wounded enough to need quick care, while the rest are either healthy enough to keep marching towards the Holy Land, or simply dead.  Christof and his bretheren should be under orders of the Archbishop as ordered (in a letter) by their captain, and we should have the opportunity to kill the Archbishop at somepoint during the game.  I'm sure a lot of people wished for the chance to do that in the original game.
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Javokis

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Re: Redemption Source Planning
« Reply #6 on: 2007-12-05, 21:51:41 »

Those are all good ideas. I like 'em. So far we're still on the same mindset.
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Azraelthe7th

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Re: Redemption Source Planning
« Reply #7 on: 2007-12-06, 13:06:55 »

We wouldn't be working on this together if we weren't.  We'll have our eventual disagreements, there's no doubt, but as long as we keep things civil, we'll be just fine.
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ORI

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Re: Redemption Source Planning
« Reply #8 on: 2007-12-06, 13:43:34 »

It's not the dark occult stuff I had a problem with, it's the way they were shown in the game.

So change it, show us the Tremere in the light(or rather darkness) they should have been presented, I.E Tremere with less kitchy design:
I think that the characters themselves were well done(I mean the animation and voice), the only thing I didnt like is the overly colorful level design in the tremere chantry and tremere clothing which indeed gave it more of a AD&D toy wizard style rather than the dark mysterious warlock impression they deserve.
Anyway its just a thought , though it does sound you have your hands full.

For waking up catchy phrase IMO : "Am I in haven?" /"Are you an angel?" works better, because Mother Mary sounds too nurturing to me . For me what lets you know Christoph has the hots for Anezka is more the non verbal interaction and voice tone rather than what they are actually saying: Camera shot and Animation in the opening scene that show how they both react to eachother, and that part where the Archbishop enters and breaks the romantic moment was just too perfect to skip.

I did not wish to kill the Archbishop I just wanted the oppertunity to tell him to stuff it and to see his expression when Christoph makes love to and demoralize Anezka in the coven the following night.

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Azraelthe7th

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Re: Redemption Source Planning
« Reply #9 on: 2007-12-06, 22:03:05 »

Hehehe.

Honestly, I think some of the animations could have used more work.  I swear, if I saw another character repeat the same movement while blurting out five minutes of monologue I'll kill something.

I think the idea of Christof saying "Mother Mary" works better when he wakes up thinking he's dead, in Heaven and greeted by her.  However, if we go with Javokis' idea of having three paths, "Mother Mary" would likely go to the for the Inquistor (I think).

But, we're getting a bit too ahead of ourselves for now, but your input is welcomed and taken into consideration.  If we can make the Tremere and their associated missions less DnD-ish, then we should.
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arathalion

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Re: Redemption Source Planning
« Reply #10 on: 2007-12-10, 00:23:38 »

all you really have to do to make the tremere missions less dnd ish is make the rooms more bookwormy and less dnd style arcane magic, lessen the number of tremere and make any discipline they use not very showy. limeting them abit. making them actually walk around and attack with weapons.

perhaps if only a few of them even used thaumaturgy during the battle.

i think that the tremere stuff is easily addapted.
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Azraelthe7th

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Re: Redemption Source Planning
« Reply #11 on: 2007-12-11, 13:44:47 »

For now, I propose we do things one step at a time.  We need to at least have a working Prague environment, and then the Silver mines.  We haven't even mentioned the Cappadocians or the Nosferatu in the process, and both of these take precedence over the Tremere in the original game (not to forget the Golem).

Basically, we'll get to the Tremere when we get to the Tremere.  And they would technically be rendered useless (story wise) if there's no trip to Vienna to begin with.
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Azraelthe7th

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Re: Redemption Source Planning
« Reply #12 on: 2007-12-14, 05:12:03 »

General rule for animations (once we finally get to those. and presuming characters will have a "character sheet"):  I propose we do things by a "rule of three", being that each animation would have three variations, but only when needed.

For example:  one thing I like about PVKII is that when you shoot the crossbow, you have to manually reload it, which forces you to stop, look down as the character needs to use his foot to help pull on the bow.  This works well for characters whose strength+athletics/archery trait is low (say a total of 2-4).  Going above that number (5-8), characters would have an easier time reloading (no need to stop and use the foot), but it wouldn't be a quick and automatic process, but at least they're less incapacitated than on lower levels.  At the highest levels (9-10), we could simply use the HL2 crossbow animation.

Alternatively, feeding could simply be based on positioning.  Front, back and kneeling (there could be two kneeling anims: one for when sneaking behind a character and one for the hand feeding).

I also mentioned a character sheet, and I propose we rank things in the way of the MET rules.  Ratings of 1-4 would be considered Basic, 5-8 Intermediate and 9-10 Master.  This gives us clear limits for assigning things like animations.

That's all the ideas I have at the moment.  Feel free to pitch in.
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arathalion

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Re: Redemption Source Planning
« Reply #13 on: 2007-12-14, 05:22:10 »

nfi how met works, but those feeding animations should be planned carefully. (feeding when kneeling? lol)
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Javokis

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Re: Redemption Source Planning
« Reply #14 on: 2007-12-14, 16:54:25 »

A sexual image comes to mind...

On another note of feeding, I had some ideas about setting a gauge for feed-rate or feed-style. Something simple like an option to feed sensually upon a target or gorge the target, resulting in severe damage as well as blood loss. I'm thinking there should be more to feeding than just walking up to feed on a target. Feeding is the most important part of being a vampire thus it should have the most game-play options to it. The player should be allowed to experiment with various hunting tactics and feed options.

This brings me to ideas for Christof's 'true' first mission with Wilhem - not to whipe out the Cappadocians, but to learn to hunt with Wilhem. I'm thinking Thief style here where Christof learns several techniques for hunting, from entering peoples homes to subtly choosing targets that wander the streets at night or simply finding a drunk maiden at the bar to use some charms on. I'll need to write up some of these thoughts on the planning doc soon enough. The original game only went into a basic run-through of feeding where some old drunk guy just happens to be walking by when Wilhem tells him to feed off of him. Instead, the whole mission should be about finding a target to feed from rather than just making a small side-note before going off to slaughter a couple of hundred Cappa's.
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